&c. &c. &c.

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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
burnsopale
burnsopale

Childermass & Segundus - it sounds very well

So one day the York Society of Magicians receives a new member, and Childermass is like okay, no big deal, those guys never do anything interesting anyway.

But then, right, then the new guy and one of the old guys writes to Mr Norrell and asks if they may have the pleasure of waiting on him sometime, and Mr Norrell is like "No" but Childermass is like "Actually yes" because he's intrigued, or because the cards have told him something is about to happen, or because Mr Norrell is years overdue to go to London and revive English magic and Childermass figures this might jostle him into doing something. We don't know what exactly happened, but it seems likely that it was Childermass who made the visit possible, because the idea of Mr Norrell ever wanting visitors is impossible to accept.

So these two theoretical magicians come to Hurtfew Abbey, and Childermass is in the library waiting for the visit to end and Norrell to show up and tell him what the men wanted, but instead, when the door opens, there they are, the visitors, having been invited to see the library and what the fuck did they say to old Gilbert to make that happen?? Not that it matters, they're not gonna remember anything by the time they get home, the enchantments will see to that.

Mr Norrell introduces Childermass, and the new guy gives him a look like Childermass facinates him, but Childermass is used to that. He figures he'll just hang out until they leave.

Except the new guy, who is a dark, timid-looking little man named John Segundus, keeps looking around like he can sense the spells lighting the room, keeps looking out the window like he's not happy with the orientation of the walls, keeps blinking like the magic is making him a little dizzy. John Segundus is clearly magic sensitive. No one in the York Society is magic sensitive, Childermass knows that for a fact. This is suddenly intriguing.

So Childermass ends up keeping half an eye on Mr Segundus as he explores, until Mr Segundus notices, sensitive as he is, and their eyes meet. Childermass reads longing, need, delight and confusion on the man's face, but Childermass is without pity; by the time Mr Segundus gets home, he won't remember what he's seen. It doesn't matter; no one in the York Society ever did anything interesting anyway.

But then later, the letter from Dr Foxcastle comes, and Mr Norrell is Upset and Offended, and Childermass realises that the Revival is about to start at last. And because Mr Norrell is fearful and Childermass is pitiless, they send a lawyer with their demands.

Mr Robinson the lawyer returns to Hurtfew a little perplexed. Oh yes, they all signed, just like you said they would, every one of them ... except ... except one. Childermass is a little surprised to discover that the timid little man had a spine after all. Mr Norrell wants Mr Robinson to go back and demand the last signature, but Childermass says "Wait". And at this point, we do not know what he is thinking. Perhaps he simply thinks that they will need someone to write to London once the miracle has been done, and Mr Segundus is more likely to be amiable if he has not just been deprived of his calling. But then, Mr Honeyfoot, the other visitor, would definitely be happy to write, even though he WILL be deprived of that same calling. Perhaps, Childermass thinks that this is a strangely fateful twist, that the one member of the York Society who has an actual talent for magic is the one person who refused to give it up. Maybe he remembers a time when he himself was full of longing for magic, when he could sense it all around him but was unable to grasp it, when he too would get dizzy in Mr Norrell's library. He may not feel pity, but he can be intrigued. He convinces Mr Norrell to let Mr Segundus be.

Childermass laughs inside when John Segundus doesn't recognise him outside the cathedral, but then startles when the man almost recalls after all. He is not supposed to be able to break the enchantment. Thankfully, the moment passes, and after the magic is done, Mr Segundus turns out to be exactly as easy to manipulate as Childermass thought he would be. The polite ones are easy, especially when they are full of need and longing, and keep looking at Childermass like he has the answers they are searching for. Maybe Childermass uses a little bit of magic to persuade the man to write to London, or maybe he just smiles, and waits, and lets John Segundus come to him of his own accord.

Childermass returns to Hurtfew Abbey and says to his master "Go to London. Go now." and because Childermass knows about these things, they go.

And nine years pass in London.

But occasionally during those nine years, Childermass turns his attention to York, to see what timid little John Segundus is up to. Mostly it's not much.

Until Jonathan Strange happens. That he happens at all is rather extraordinary, but how interesting that he should come to seek Mr Norrell on the advice of John Segundus? For sure there are many people with an affinity for magic in England, but how many of them are magicians? Too few, thinks Childermass. How likely is it that two of them should meet at random? He wonders if this is another fated twist.

So he continues to keep half an eye on York, just in case Mr Segundus should discover how to actually grasp the magic that surrounds him. But when Strange returns from the war in Spain, his conversation tells Childermass that even with the learning, even with actual spells to hand, their timid little man in York cannot make the magic work.

John Segundus begins taking on pupils. Childermass keeps it from Mr Norrell. Childermass has been the instrument of many a theoretical magician's destruction, Childermass reads the hearts of men and feels no pity for them, and yet Childermass keeps John Segundus hidden from Mr Norrell. Maybe, just maybe, John Childermass is beginning to feel a little bit of pity after all. He was once the one longing to master the powers that often overpowered him. He too loves magic so much, enough to endure servitude and secrecy to be near it.

But then John Segundus wants to start a school. Well, if he is going to be that silly, then Childermass cannot help him. Mr Norrell finds out, Mr Norrell panics, and he dispatches Childermass to York to put a stop to this evil plan. Business as usual in other words.

Childermass sits quite comfortably on the steps of Starecross when John Segundus comes home. Childermass delivers his message.

"You know me, Sir," he says, completely forgetting that while he has always had half an eye on John Segundus, John Segundus has not seen Childermass for nine years. Maybe, just maybe, Childermass is a little embarrassed at his mistake. But the errand is completed, and Mr Segundus is easy to manipulate, because he is so very gentle and polite.

Childermass may or may not have noticed that he has been manipulated in turn, because he, who has no pity for any man, lets Mr Segundus know that he regrets that the school cannot be, and he is willing to do what he can to keep Mr Segundus' dream from failing entirely. Although of course, he knows that a regular school is not at all the same as a school of magic.

Childermass knows what it's like to long, but he has found, if not the answers to his questions, then at least the tools by which to hunt them down. He can do the magic.

Then Mr Strange and Mr Norrell quarrel.

And then Lady Pole tries to shoot Mr Norrel. The lady walks with one foot in Faerie and one in London, and for a while, so does Childermass. Something is not right with the lady, but Mr Norrell won't tell him what magic he employed to bring her back from the dead. She'll be sent away somewhere where Childermass will have no chance to discover the truth. Unless of course he decides where she goes. Perhaps for instance to one whom Childermass knows will feel the Faerie winds blowing about the lady, someone who will be able to carry on the search for the truth, whether he knows that he's doing Childermass' work or not. Mr Segundus is easy to manipulate.

Childermass recommends to Sir Walter that he send his wife to Starecross in Yorkshire. How fortuitous that the master of that hall has just decided to open a madhouse there. Surely the visions that gave him the idea were entirely coincidental.

Mr Norrell and Childermass quarrel.

Jonathan Strange Returns magic to England. The Raven King returns to England and rewrites his book.

Mr Norrell and Mr Strange disappear into Faerie.

Suddenly, Childermass is the most experienced magician in England. No one has read as much, has practiced as much, or knows the spells he knows.

But he thinks that there is one man who will not be far behind him in achieving similar results. And maybe Childermass wonders sometimes if it was not all meant to be this way, that it was fate, that he himself was meant to come out on the other side as a student of the two great modern magicians of the age, and that he was meant to bring with him, sheltered under his wing, a dark, timid little man with an extraordinary sensitivity to magic. The books may be gone, but through his instruments, the Raven King has made sure that the new generation of magicians are both capable of and eager to read the magic written on the sky. It will take sensitive men, full of longing, and isn't it fortuitous then, that all those years ago, in the library at Hurtfew Abbey, Childermass recognised another like himself in John Segundus, and decided to keep half an eye on him.

OP I'm giving you a standing ovation this is excellent as are your tags
burnsopale
burnsopale

We need to talk about Childermass

Before the Return of magic to England, there are, as far as we know, only four Englishmen capable of performing acts of magic. Strange and Norrell, Childermass and Vinculus.

Strange and Norrell can do magic at will. They have both the Talent and the Learning necessary, though they approach magic from opposite sides of that spectrum. Most likely, they are able to do magic because they are the instruments of the Raven King's prophecy.

Vinculus has clear magical Talent, but not the Learning (Childermass says this in "The Cards of Marseilles": "You are a strange creature - the very reverse of all the magicians of the last centuries. They were full of learning but had no talent. You have talent and no knowledge."). I count two feats of magic from Vinculus' interactions with the tarot cards. He lays out Childermass' fortune, meaning he can make the cards respond to him; it seems that it would not be enough for a random person to just lay out the cards, you have to have some magical ability to "activate" them, so to speak, to make them actually answer your question. This makes sense, as the Cards of Marseilles were created to be playing cards; they are not inherently magical. Vinculus' other feat of magic is transforming the deck into all Raven Kings. That is a proper feat of magic, but seems to be done in respons to Childermass dismissing him as an agent of the Raven King. I suspect Vinculus can only do magic spontaneously, in moments where he is called on to herald the coming of the Raven King. He is an instrument, not a master.

In this same category, as contrast, we find John Segundus, who has the Talent and eventually the Learning, but who cannot do magic until the Return. During the war in Spain, we get a glimpse into Strange and Segundus' correspondence, where it's clear that Strange has given Segundus all the tools he needs to perform an act of scrying magic, but Segundus cannot make it work. We know that he is one of the most magic-sensitive people in the story, but he cannot master it (and is on the contrary frequently magic's chew toy, poor baby). His example is important because it tells us that for most people, no matter their affinity, magic is simply barred.

Which brings us to Childermass, who just ... doesn't care ... about the rules? He has the Talent and the Learning, and he can do spells at will. Set aside the question of why the fuck Norrell doesn't realise how insane it is that his servant can randomly do magic when no one else can, and how he can call himself England's only magician with a straight face when Childermass is RIGHT THERE. That's a question of characterisation. I'm interested in the fact that Childermass can do magic at all. The other three people capable of doing magic before the Return are all instruments of the Raven King; his prophet and the two men meant to bring the prophecy to fruition.

It seems to me impossible that Childermass should not also be an instrument of the Raven King. Anything else would break the rules of the world Clarke has built. Although to be fair, he breaks those rules already because he is a servant who is not a servant (See that quote about how he will tell a whole room full of admirals and ministers that they're idiots). But what is he? The backup plan? Or is he allowed to practice because someone has to spearhead the Restoration once Strange and Norrell are gone? Explain, Susanna! Explain!


EDIT cause I read a little further: And then fucking Tom Levy comes in in chapter 49 and RUINS EVERYTHING! How can he do magic? Was the "two magicians" thing nonsense all along?? Does this mean anyone can do magic theoretically? Is Mr Segundus simply not trying hard enough? Is magic really gone or is that just what people think? Did Strange start the Return when he travelled through his first mirror? Please say so! I am so upset! What are the rules, Susanna?? Are there even any rules? ARE THERE RULES, SUSANNA?

ohveda

I always assumed that by the time Tom Levy is in the picture, magic has already started to return. It’s not there for everyone yet, but for those like Tom who are most adept at it.

When it comes to the cards (and I have no evidence to back this up) I had thought that while gentleman magicians can no longer do magic, there is still some folk magic lingering in the background. Things like fortune-telling with cards, which people don’t necessarily think of as magic. Little folk traditions like leaving gifts out for brownies or whatever. They’re not showy, and unlikely to be of interest to those writing books and journals, but just the everyday magical world in the background.

However, Childermass is particularly skilled in it, and more than able to pick up the spells which Norrell teaches him too (and the several he learns without Norrell’s permission, I’m sure). He is super important to the Raven King, or at least I think so. You wouldn’t get [spoilers for the end of the book] otherwise.

(You know, I never thought that Vinculus did the magic to make the cards turn into Raven Kings. I always just assumed that the cards did it themselves because the magic of the Raven King was so thick in the air.)

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
burnsopale
burnsopale

This is the first time it has clicked for me that very likely, Childermass sends Lady Pole to Starecross not to fulfil his promised favour to John Segundus, but because he knows that Segundus is as sensitive to magic as himself, and so is bound to notice that Lady Pole walks half in Faerie. Childermass knows that it'll be difficult for him to investigate this mystery himself once the lady is sent into seclusion, so he sends her to Segundus so that he will be tempted to continue to unravel the mystery on Childermass' behalf, although he won't know that's what he's doing. And also, I suspect, Childermass figures placing her with timid Mr Segundus means Childermass will get access to the lady if he wants it later. In that case, he has forgotten that while timid, John Segundus is not spineless.

By the way, how very lucky it is that just when a madhouse is needed, Mr Segundus has a vision that inspires him to open one at Starecross. What an incredible coincidence. Not Childermass' doing at all. Nope. He's never manipulated John Segundus in his life. Doesn't sound like him. Couldn't be.

ohveda

Yes! I see this too. Childermass wants to know that Lady Pole is in good hands: meaning the hands of someone who's going to understand and investigate the magic surrounding her.

It's one of the things that makes me think Childermass actually has a high regard of Segundus as a magician (and one of the things that makes me ship it).

But no, I don't think Childermass gets turned away in the book. When Childermass tells Segundus he can't have a school, Segundus gets petulant at most (it's perhaps the most aggressive we see him, which isn't saying much). When Childermass comes to check on Lady Pole, Segundus invites him in with open arms. (I like to think that Segundus understands the difference between Norrell closing the school, and Childermass helping with the madhouse. Although I can see Segundus thinking that Childermass does it out of the goodness of his heart and doesn't realise that Childermass has an ulterior motive. Note to Segundus: Childermass always has an ulterior motive.)

So, in the way I read it, Segundus truly is spineless. Which I mean as a high compliment. He is very conflict-avoidant, and it is one of the reasons why I grabbed book!Segundus to my breast as my blorbo, and why TV!Segundus gave me a bit of a "this doesn't quite seem like my baby".

Personally, I'm one of those people who thinks that the Raven King (or fate) gave Segundus his vision of the madman. Remember Segundus also has a vision of Lady Pole when he first visits Starecross. But mostly I like to think that because I like to imagine Segundus is very important to the Raven King, because he is a special little guy.

burnsopale

Someone responded! Thank you! I had convinced myself that no one was replying cause my thoughts were too stupid. XD

Ah, so I did remember wrong. No walnut for book!Childermass. Sad. But it's honestly part of the pleasure of my current reread to rediscover all the details I've forgotten. It just makes theorizing dangerous.

I also love that John Segundus is truly a gentle man, kind, polite, self-effacing. He's a Cinderella type, taking suffering in stride and never letting bitterness overcome him. When I say he is not spineless, I am thinking specifically of the moment when he refuses to sign Norrell's contract. He's surrounded by the rest of the York Society, everyone else has signed, including Mr Honeyfoot, so everyone is waiting for Mr Segundus. Norrell's lawyer intimates that if Segundus doesn't sign, the whole deal might be off; it was assumed that everyone would be onboard since the Society insulted Norrell first (Goddammit, Dr Foxcastle!). Segundus is the one who started all of this, and now he's not gonna play? He's facing tremendous peer pressure in that moment, and yet he holds to his decision.

The TV show makes him sassier than the book, and I do kind of love that version too, but I think book!Segundus has some quiet steel in him as well.

I also adore the idea that he is important to the Raven King. If it is true that everything happens according to the King's plan to return magic to England, then I believe that he meant for Norrell and Strange to make the Restoration happen, and for Childermass and Segundus to carry on the work after them. I don't think it's coincidental that these two share an incredible sensitivity to magic and to the language of the land, and that the post-Restoration magicians have no books to learn from and will have to do it the old-fashioned way, by speaking with England itself.

I just don't think the Raven King interfered personally to give Mr Segundus the vision, because it seems like such a small step in the grand plan, but we can't know for sure.

I also think that Childermass recognises Segundus' affinity for magic early on, and keeps an eye on him because of that, maybe because he realises that they are alike, and maybe just because he's curious. Makes it all the more fun to ship them!

ohveda

“I had convinced myself that no one was replying cause my thoughts were too stupid.” Not stupid at all! Lovely to read in fact! I think the general setup of Tumblr can discourage conversation because it’s like, you don’t want to ruin someone’s lovely post by barging in and spewing your own thoughts all over it. Or that’s how I see it anyway. (Although I wouldn’t mind anyone adding their thoughts to my posts! But brains are weird like that.)

“When I say he is not spineless, I am thinking specifically of the moment when he refuses to sign Norrell’s contract.” I had forgotten that. You’re very right! Segundus has strength of conviction and he won’t change what is important to him, regardless of peer pressure. He is very strong in that way. I guess then that his conflict avoidance comes when people insult him directly; in those instances he won’t stand up for himself. He’s so darling.

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
burnsopale
burnsopale

This is the first time it has clicked for me that very likely, Childermass sends Lady Pole to Starecross not to fulfil his promised favour to John Segundus, but because he knows that Segundus is as sensitive to magic as himself, and so is bound to notice that Lady Pole walks half in Faerie. Childermass knows that it'll be difficult for him to investigate this mystery himself once the lady is sent into seclusion, so he sends her to Segundus so that he will be tempted to continue to unravel the mystery on Childermass' behalf, although he won't know that's what he's doing. And also, I suspect, Childermass figures placing her with timid Mr Segundus means Childermass will get access to the lady if he wants it later. In that case, he has forgotten that while timid, John Segundus is not spineless.

By the way, how very lucky it is that just when a madhouse is needed, Mr Segundus has a vision that inspires him to open one at Starecross. What an incredible coincidence. Not Childermass' doing at all. Nope. He's never manipulated John Segundus in his life. Doesn't sound like him. Couldn't be.

ohveda

Yes! I see this too. Childermass wants to know that Lady Pole is in good hands: meaning the hands of someone who’s going to understand and investigate the magic surrounding her.

It’s one of the things that makes me think Childermass actually has a high regard of Segundus as a magician (and one of the things that makes me ship it).

But no, I don’t think Childermass gets turned away in the book. When Childermass tells Segundus he can’t have a school, Segundus gets petulant at most (it’s perhaps the most aggressive we see him, which isn’t saying much). When Childermass comes to check on Lady Pole, Segundus invites him in with open arms. (I like to think that Segundus understands the difference between Norrell closing the school, and Childermass helping with the madhouse. Although I can see Segundus thinking that Childermass does it out of the goodness of his heart and doesn’t realise that Childermass has an ulterior motive. Note to Segundus: Childermass always has an ulterior motive.)

So, in the way I read it, Segundus truly is spineless. Which I mean as a high compliment. He is very conflict-avoidant, and it is one of the reasons why I grabbed book!Segundus to my breast as my blorbo, and why TV!Segundus gave me a bit of a “this doesn’t quite seem like my baby”.

Personally, I’m one of those people who thinks that the Raven King (or fate) gave Segundus his vision of the madman. Remember Segundus also has a vision of Lady Pole when he first visits Starecross. But mostly I like to think that because I like to imagine Segundus is very important to the Raven King, because he is a special little guy.

Sorry for jumping on this with a really long response It's just been ages since I've chatted Segundus and I do love it so Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell